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First of all, anything that sort of I'm about to say is going to be available in this website,

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okay?

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This is the GRAL website.

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This is the GRAL website.

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This stands for, which they don't ask permission for, okay?

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And I don't mind this being recorded, but I don't mind this being recorded in work in

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progress.

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Okay.

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GRAL stands for Second Language Acquisition in Catalan, okay, and it's a research group.

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It's a consolidated, an excellency sort of research group coordinated by Karma Muñoz.

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We spent a lot of time sort of investigating the age factor, and basically, as an introduction,

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what we found that contrary to what is commonly believed, those who started earlier did not

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sort of in the long term outperform those who started late.

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And the research that I'm going to report is using some of the GRAL database, okay?

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So we already know what is CLIL.

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I just sort of pointed out the definition of CLIL, because she sort of raises high expectations,

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okay?

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There is a very strong claim here that says that CLIL raises the overall proficiency in

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the target language, okay?

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We've got as antecedents, okay, the work that has been conducted and beautifully described

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this morning, okay, in Canada and in the States, and what I like about something that

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has also been mentioned this morning is that there is a lot of potential of integrating

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content and language, not just for sort of the mainstream learners, but also for those

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who are low achievers or at risk.

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Muñoz has got a 2007 presentation, article, in which she describes the psychological principles

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underlying CLIL, okay?

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And what she basically sort of points out is beyond sort of besides describing the rationale,

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why is it that it works, why is it, why does it make sense sort of to integrate content

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and language?

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She also sort of has a final remark, which is CLIL, okay, or integrating content and

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language has got a lot of potential, okay?

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It's got, it sort of provides the necessary conditions that second language acquisition

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has suggested are necessary for successful language learning, but does not warranty them,

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okay?

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So this is something that I would like to sort of come up later, okay?

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The empirical research on CLIL, okay, in our context, I could have sort of cited many other

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studies, okay?

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We have divided them into writing performance and EFL proficiency.

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Writing performance, because there is this hypothesis or this suggestion being put forth

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by Dalton Puffer, 2008, in which she sort of expected CLIL to be much sort of successful

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in all the other skills, but not in writing, okay?

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Which is something that it makes a lot of sense, okay, if sort of we follow and we trust

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the results coming from the Canada Immersion Program, okay, it was clear this morning,

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that everything else being equal, those students that sort of, the areas in which they outperformed

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were the receptive skills, okay, but not the productive skills.

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So we'll see in the short term, okay, what it is like, and before I go on, okay, I should

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sort of give you a little bit of context in the Catalan community, okay, which is different

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from the Andalusian and the Madrid one, okay?

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You are very lucky in the sense that there are a lot of sort of schools that have been

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implementing what you regard as bilingual education for a long time, what we regard

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as bilingual education basically involves our native languages, okay, but we keep CLIL

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for the teaching and learning of English as a foreign language through, okay, the teaching

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of other subjects.

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Sort of, it started and I was involved in at the beginning of sort of setting up some

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of the CLIL experiences a long time, but nowadays, okay, we do not have the equivalent of, I

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wish we had, okay, and I wish we had this in Spain or in Europe in general, a picture,

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okay, that sort of would allow us as the morning presentation say, all right, those that are

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sort of early, early, partial, early partial, okay, total, early total, okay, or the late

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exit or something like that, unfortunately, okay, we're going to report is what was available

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in our community, okay, and with sort of very little generalisation.

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Okay, Muñoz and Naves, 2007, sort of review the research studies, the empirical research

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studies that had been published, okay, until 2007, of course, okay, and what we found was

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that generally speaking, okay, there was a gain of up to two years, okay, but our major

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criticism, including my own studies, okay, mine included, okay, so I'm also sort of the

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one to blame, those studies have some sort of methodological, I wouldn't say flaws, okay,

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but limitations, okay, one of the most important limitations of those type of studies is that

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we are comparing, okay, students from state-funded schools with sort of semi-private schools,

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for example, or students that sort of studied at different ages or after different amount

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of instruction.

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Those studies were necessary, okay, we needed to see the extent to which it may work, okay,

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to then sort of come up with much more refined, okay, and finely tuned sort of subtle and

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more sophisticated research designs, but what we're going to report here, okay, is basically

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what we did, okay, and as I said, Dalton Pafford, 2007 and also 2008, predicted that CLIL would

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be beneficial in sort of many domains, but in writing, okay, she didn't expect writing

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sort of to have some gains.

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Something that, this is a PhD student of ours, okay, and this is part of his MA thesis, which

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he defended last year, and I would like you to concentrate on the green side, okay, research

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question number two, in which he was compared great students at grade nine, okay, this is

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grade nine versus grade 10 on the one hand, okay, and students from grade seven versus

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those at grade nine, okay, the younger ones, okay, or the lower grade ones having sort

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of had one course of CLIL, and what I mean by one course is basically one asignatura,

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okay, and everything within that subject was taught in English, but with just for one year,

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okay, so this is very short term, okay.

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So grade seven students, okay, versus grade nine, so sorry, grade seven versus grade nine,

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and then grade nine versus grade 10, and he analysed writing, and the way he analysed

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writing was using the Jacobs band scale that sort of classifies writing, it's a band scale

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into mechanics, language use, vocabulary, organisation, and content, okay, and we see

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that when grade nine, thank you, grade nine and grade 10 students were compared, okay,

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basically no significant differences were found except for the area of guess what, vocabulary,

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okay, what did I do?

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Vocabulary, okay, and language use, okay, or grammar, whereas there were no significant

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differences between those CLIL learners, okay, and the grade 10, okay, we'll go back

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to that.

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I'm going to skip, okay, László Gabáster, okay, is one of sort of the antecedent pieces

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of work that we looked at, because he has used a very similar methodology as we have,

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which is they also, at the Basque Country, they have also administered English proficiency

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sort of battery of tests, and they have analysed writing both holistically and analytically.

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What I mean by holistically and analytically is, okay, you either have a band scale, and

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you say, all right, this is a six out of 10, okay, or if it's an analytical band scale

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like the one I have just mentioned, Jacobs et al., okay, you look at the different patterns

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and say, okay, as far as vocabulary, as far as grammar, as far as mechanics, as far as

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organisation, as far as ideas, all right, and because of that, okay, we thought that

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it was interesting.

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What he did was he compared the overall proficiency and the four language skills, okay, of three

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groups of learners, okay, and he also found, okay, that those that had attended either

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one, this is 2008, but in 2009, he also compared after two years of having had, of having studied

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a subject through CLIL, okay, those were the ones who significantly outperformed those

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that had not received any CLIL, okay, and this is not after the same amount of hours

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of instruction, okay.

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So our methodology, okay, we've got four proficiency tests, the Michigan multiple choice grammar

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test, we've got a listening, which consists of 30 items, a dictation of 50 words, okay,

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and a listening comprehension of 30 items, which is, which are exactly the same battery

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of tests that we administered to those 2,000 students, okay, that we sort of researched

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for the BAF project, for the H-Factor project, okay, and in addition to that, okay, we've

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got a time composition task that was assessed both using a bunch of measurements for accuracy,

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for fluency, for syntactic complexity, and lexical variety, and we also used a holistic

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band scale, and this is an article that has already been published, and it's a chapter

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in a book, Naves and Victoria, 2010, and it's got two different studies, because the groups

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were slightly different, okay.

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We had 800, 837 learners altogether from grades 5, 7, okay, this is primary, 8, and 9, okay,

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and study one focuses on proficiency, and to summarize the finding, learners that had

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taken one subject of CLIL at grade 7, okay, sort of there were no significant differences

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with those who were two or three grades ahead, okay, this is non-CLIL, grade 9, and non-CLIL,

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grade 10, okay, so looking at that, okay, there is some hope, okay, it's sort of promising,

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it's very short term, it's just after one subject, and when I say promising, okay, I

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know that I'm sort of anticipating some of the discussion, otherwise I find it sort of

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boring.

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So for you to think, okay, I mean, I could sort of do it more academically saying, okay,

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wait, okay, the suspense, but okay, so no significant differences, those two as well

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as those learners who are two and three grades ahead, but this is a very short term, okay,

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research, okay, it's after just having received one subject, okay, in English.

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What I see as promising is that if we compare this type of research with sort of stay abroad

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research, okay, with a few exceptions, for example, Yannis and Munoz 2009 or 2010, I

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think it's 2010, okay, in which they found differences after a very short period of staying

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abroad, okay, the vast majority of studies that have sort of looked at how much improvement

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is there for students that sort of travel abroad, okay, and study abroad for a month,

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a month and a half, three months, and even six months, okay, those students that sort

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of have not spent at least, okay, more than six months, okay, it doesn't seem to work.

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So that came as a shock because we didn't expect, okay, then I'll tell you the limitations,

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okay, and some confounds that we may have.

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And then the CLIL group who were at grade eight, okay, sort of did better than those

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who were just one grade ahead, okay, those learners from grade nine.

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Is that clear?

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Thank you.

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Thank you.

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So those results, okay, these are standardized sort of tests that are not difficult to grasp

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because, I mean, so let's go to the more intuitive ones, okay, and the second study focuses on

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writing, okay, in this one we had more grades, grades five, seven, nine, 10, 11 and 12, okay,

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but we didn't have all the possible comparisons because we didn't have, okay, CLIL groups

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for grades 11 and 12, okay.

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And this is as far as writing, so almost 700 learners.

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And what we found, for example, okay, this is much more intuitive.

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This is S-length, okay, this is in writing.

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In writing what we see is that every time, okay, this is CLIL, EFL, CLIL, non-CLIL, CLIL,

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non-CLIL, CLIL, non-CLIL, all right?

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So every time the CLIL one has a longer line, okay, that's better, and those differences

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are significant, okay?

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But the most interesting thing for me is that, for example, it allows us to see that

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those learners that are at grade five, okay, sort of do better as far as fluency in writing,

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okay, than their peers at grade seven.

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Are you with me?

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As far, okay, so this is a summary, okay, so no significant differences between CLIL

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learners at grade five and those who are two grades ahead, okay, at grade seven, okay?

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And CLIL learners at grade seven, okay, again, no significant differences with those, okay,

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that are two grades ahead as far as syntactic complexity.

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And please notice that sort of I'm cheating here, because I'm telling you where there

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are no differences, okay, or where sort of they outperform.

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So, for example, CLIL learners at grade nine, okay, do better than those that are two grades

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ahead, okay, as far as syntactic complexity.

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Syntactic complexity was assessed by means of computing the number of subordinate clauses

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per clause, the number of clauses per sentence, among others, okay?

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Okay.

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So, basically, what we found was what we also sort of had reviewed in 2007, okay, that there

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is usually a gain of up to two school years.

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Limitations, okay, and this is serious, okay?

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Which are the limitations, okay?

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I wish we had sort of comparable groups as sort of Professor Genesee was talking this

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morning, okay, everything else being equal, that is, sort of from the same economical

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background, okay, with sort of the similar teachers.

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We didn't, okay, and I'm not sort of lying to you, I'm telling you in advance, okay,

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this is what we had, okay?

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So, we sort of used the GRAL database as sort of the baseline, okay, and we could compare

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those that had not taken any CLIL classes with those that had taken one single subject,

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okay, in CLIL.

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But there is a major difference, okay?

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Those that had CLIL, okay, CLIL provision was usually sort of provided within non-state

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funded schools, okay, semi-private, what we call concertada, which as we know, okay, tend

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to be slightly better.

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The neighbourhoods that we sort of selected the schools from, okay, were not the most

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privileged, okay, and we sort of made the effort to select those that were closer to,

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but not identical, okay, and we didn't sort of check that, okay, so this is something.

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But something that I like sort of to suggest is, all right, research seems to suggest that

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there are statistical significant differences, which means basically that we can't claim

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that it is at random, okay, that this group behaves completely different from that group,

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okay, and this group seems to be better.

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But if we think why is it that we wanted to introduce CLIL in schools, okay, at least

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the Council of Europe suggested that CLIL should be introduced in order to sort of,

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in order to change drastically the level of our students by the time sort of they finish

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secondary school, non-compulsory education, okay, by the time they finish bachillerato.

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So which is the level that in your communities learners tend to achieve by the time they

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reach university?

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A2, B1, the good ones B2 maximum.

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So what does it really mean sort of to show that at those levels, okay, in which probably

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because they involve sort of primary school kids, okay, we are talking about A1 among

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the sort of, you're familiar with sort of the A1, okay, A1 which is sort of the low

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beginners, okay, in the Common European Framework.

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What does it mean, okay?

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So this group sort of does better than this one, but this does not say anything about

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sort of the ultimate goal that, the ultimate sort of level that they may end up by the

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time they enter university.

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In Canada they are really lucky because they've got sort of these long stable programs, okay,

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that have allowed them to follow them longitudinally on the one hand and sort of make the necessary

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comparisons.

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And sort of having in the short run, okay, sort of significant differences in favour

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of CLIL, well it's good news, okay, but sort of the fear that I've got is that the administration

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may be too pleased with those results saying, okay, we did it, okay, it works.

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No, if in Canada after sort of so many years of sort of having school children, okay, for

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more than, I mean, if we think of sort of the early total immersion, it takes how many

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years, 12, 10, okay, and yet, okay, the results are pretty good, but they have sort of been

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pointed out some sort of not such successful areas.

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So, and I think that I'd like to conclude with this one, okay, so I'm going to skip

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this one, which is basically.

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So, the results are in line with sort of those found in sort of previous results, okay, and

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I've mentioned the limitations, okay.

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And I would like to sort of finish with this idea that a finding might be relevant from

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a research point of view, but not necessarily from an educational and from a language policy

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point of view.

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Thank you very much.

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Thank you.

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Okay, we still have five minutes for questions or any doubts.

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Let's start here.

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I have one question.

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At the end of secondary, what is the expectation in the CEFR?

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I could sort of, I mean, I would turn the question to you, okay.

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I mean, in Catalonia, the teachers, okay, in Catalonia, the teachers were required to

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have the fifth of Escuela Oficial de Idiomas, which is my understanding, it is the equivalent,

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correct me if I'm wrong, okay.

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Thank you.

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It is the equivalent of B2, okay.

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So, these are the teachers of C1, okay, between B2 and C1, okay.

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But nevertheless, okay, so the teachers, this was what was required up to now, okay.

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Now, they are encouraged to, but not required to have the Quinto de Escuela Oficial de Idiomas.

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So, if the teachers who teach the subject, okay, in English, okay, are at B2 or C1 maximum,

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maximum, okay, which is it that you can expect learners to have.

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And to my knowledge, okay, learners are, by the time they finish secondary education,

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compulsory education, Bachillerato, okay, they are either at A2 or B1, most of them.

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Of course, you've got sort of the high achievers, but most of them sort of have those.

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And the point I was trying to make is that, well, if we want this to work, okay, we may

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need sort of to look at the research that has been conducted in Canada, that it is in the long

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run, okay, and after massive exposure, semi-emergent programs, okay, and sort of,

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just sort of increasing the amount seems to work to a given extent.

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Okay, Mr. Diniz?

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Just a question of clarification.

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How much, what do the non-kill experience consist of?

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How many hours?

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It's, roughly speaking, it's three and a half, okay?

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Three and a half.

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And the students who kill?

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In addition to the three and a half, okay, they've got an entire subject, which is three

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hours being taught in English.

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So, this is another limitation of this type of study, okay, in which those that have

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the kill groups, okay, have received great amount of hours of instruction.

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But that's normal, okay, at least in sort of, say, abroad studies.

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Any more questions, please?

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Well, just in defense of your own research, I think the comparison you make, it's hard to

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do this kind of comparison because it's hard to assess language no matter what you do because

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we don't have an established, absolute measurement.

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It's not like a measurement, right?

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But what's useful about doing what you did is you're able to say from a practical point

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of view that students in this program kill are doing as well, better than students in

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the regular program.

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And most people will understand what that means.

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When you get into other kinds of metrics, like even this, people have trouble understanding

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outside the, the Council of Europe have trouble understanding what a C1 and an E2 is.

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So, there is the advantage of what you're doing is it's relating their achievement to

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a known level of achievement within the system that you're looking at.

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Thank you.

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Hi, thank you very much.

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I just want to clarify that you are testing their abilities in English?

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Yep.

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Not across the board, English.

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No, I mean the next PhD dissertation I'm going to talk about, okay, she aims sort of at sort

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of assessing not just English as a foreign language or English as a second or whatever

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we want to call it, okay, but also science because she's a teacher of science at primary

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school.

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Okay, thank you very much.

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Thank you.

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We have now one minute for Teresa to change the presentation.

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If anybody wants to change the room, please go ahead.

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Looking at the age factor, was looking at the age factor in writing, okay, the effects

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on, in, in the effects on writing, okay, because it was,

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it, it was, it was expected as the research on, on the age factor, okay, has looked mostly

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at sort of the, the oral proficiency, okay, and sort of communicative sort of activities,

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but not so much writing, okay, and I, I got interested in, in writing, so it's because

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they sort of followed me, sorry, yeah, and I don't have a better answer to that.

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But also because, I mean, in, in Murcia, okay, I mean from a theoretical point of

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view, in Murcia, for example, something that we have started sort of looking at is the

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potential of writing as a learning tool, okay, because most of the time we sort of look at

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writing has been the sort of the most neglected skill ever since the communicative language

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oriented learning was, was spread, okay, both in research, okay, and also because of SLA

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research, okay, we have looked at emergency in sort of the domains of conversations, but

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not in writing.

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In the early presentation of the results, you found no difference between, if I remember

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correctly, the CLIL students and the non-CLIL students on some of the more mechanical, technical,

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and you gave an explanation for that, which I can't remember, but an alternative explanation

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is that, possibly, is that those are the areas that are a focus of attention, including

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the traditional foreign language program, and even in immersion, we sometimes find that

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the control students sometimes do quite well compared to immersion students, but it's in

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areas that are kind of technical and mechanical as opposed to more content, like, so you found

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advantages of content in organization, and you might expect that in a, an approach where

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the emphasis on communication of content, whereas in less teaching, and this is one

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of the things we're looking at more and more, is that maybe we need to be spending more

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attention to more technical and mechanical things, like verb tenses and punctuation,

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because they're not always getting that when we let them do it on their own, do you see

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what I'm saying?

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Yeah, yeah, thank you very much for the tip, okay, yeah, I'll, I'll, I'll think about it,

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but I, I mean, I, I might be wrong, okay, but I think that the emphasis in most of our

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context, okay, tends, I mean, the only sort of experience I've got, the direct experience

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I've got from, from Canada is thanks to two colleagues of ours who collaborated with us

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for a while, Joanna, Joanna White and Laura Collins, okay, and it seemed to me, okay,

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that sort of the, the observations that she, they, they reported, okay, and sort of the

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data that we looked at, okay, the teachers were paying much less attention to forms in

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general than sort of the average teacher here, okay, I mean, this is the, yeah, yeah, it

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might be, and this is anecdotal, anecdotal sort of, for example, when I set up one of

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sort of the pioneer projects in, in, of, that was called at that time content-based

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in, in Barcelona for the Generalitat of Catalonia, what we found was that there were sort of experiential

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hands-on activities and they had to, to perform experiments, but if there was this group that

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sort of finished earlier, the science teacher, either the science teacher or the language

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teacher, but most of the time it's the science teacher because it was co-teaching at that

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time, okay, could sort of stop and then review from a language or from a grammar point of

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view, and I said, why are you doing this? I said, oh, you know, I mean, I thought that

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I had time, okay, and I wanted to help, and the way they thought that they should help

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was sort of, and I, that's sort of the anecdote, okay, and I, no claims can be made, I know,

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but yeah, I'll, I'll think about it.

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you